Curse

cataphract · Sep 25, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Oh, for the love of God. Follow the logic of valuable upgrades that were destroyed in the process of salvaging. Today demand is high, the upgrades aren't plentiful - ergo the cost of them. Tomorrow demand remains high but the upgrades are in abundance - ergo the lower prices. You can see that clearly with the Insightful staff heads. Once they were like 20k and today you have trouble selling them for 5k and you end up selling for 3k if you don't want to waste time. Or simply give them out to guildies, friends, ...

arcanemacabre · Sep 25, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Oh, for the love of God. Follow the logic of valuable upgrades that were destroyed in the process of salvaging. Today demand is high, the upgrades aren't plentiful - ergo the cost of them. Tomorrow demand remains high but the upgrades are in abundance - ergo the lower prices. You can see that clearly with the Insightful staff heads. Once they were like 20k and today you have trouble selling them for 5k and you end up selling for 3k if you don't want to waste time. Or simply give them out to guildies, friends, ...

In all fairness, supply wasn't what killed the Insightful Staff Head. People realizing that a wand & offhand, now readily more available and in greater variety with Factions collectors & weaponsmiths is what killed the staff market altogether, and with it, the Insightful Staff Heads.

Market saturation with weapon mods don't tend to affect the prices all that much. It's true for greens and certain skins, but not really mods. The only reason I see for any mods going down in price have pretty much everything to do with the current hot builds at the moment.

IOW, if there was a few new hammer skills that made a hammer warrior slammin (forget the pun) in PvE, and the info was widespread, hammer mods would increase, no matter the supply or saturation in the market. This would also create a slight, but noticeable decrease in all other mods, or at least sword and axe mods.

At the moment, most PvE warriors go sword, and love their Sundering, so of course, that's one of the hottest and highest priced mods out there, despite it being just as common/uncommon as any other mod.

cataphract · Sep 25, 2006, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Ok, how often does a salvage turn out good? Let's use a fictional sword in this story: Sundering Craptastic Blade of Nosepicking. Say you use salvage on it. What's the chance of getting that 20/20 sundering hilt? Pretty low. Now take a new Salvage kit that pops up a window with choices and you select the hilt as the upgrade you want to salvage. This kit salvages the desired upgrade with 100% efficiency. Don't you think that there would be an abundance of upgrades in no time? And with the market so saturated, traders would drop the prices just to sell faster and go back to farming or whatever.

Loviatar · Sep 25, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073
so how are u guys figuring that prices will drop. call me stupid if u want but i seriously doubt anyone will sell a guarentued chance to get the mod worth 50k for anything less.

hi

i can give you a simple answer you can understand

SUPERIOR ABSORB RUNE

Anet increased the drop rate look at prices now.........not 100k are they?........not even close

Anet is increasing the mod drop rate as much or even more by.....

letting you get the mod you want.

then get the second mod since it states the weapon is not damaged.

then you get to take the bonuses "inscriptions" off and sell them

then you can sell the good clean weapon.

that is why prices will drop.

arcanemacabre · Sep 25, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

Ok, how often does a salvage turn out good? Let's use a fictional sword in this story: Sundering Craptastic Blade of Nosepicking. Say you use salvage on it. What's the chance of getting that 20/20 sundering hilt? Pretty low. Now take a new Salvage kit that pops up a window with choices and you select the hilt as the upgrade you want to salvage. This kit salvages the desired upgrade with 100% efficiency. Don't you think that there would be an abundance of upgrades in no time? And with the market so saturated, traders would drop the prices just to sell faster and go back to farming or whatever.

Well, yeah, of course. I was responding to what you said about the Insightful Staff Heads, and by relation other mods in the current setting.

One question, did the article say that it would be a 100% chance of getting the mod you want? My guess is that you may choose which mod (or the inscription) to get, but probably a 50/50 chance of getting it or materials.

Mordakai · Sep 25, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

In the article, it specifically says weapons will no longer be destroyed by the salvaging process.

It also says you can choose the mod you want. I take this to mean, 100% chance of getting the mod you want, but of course, we'll have to wait and see.

(I assume we'd also have a choice to salvage a weapon for materials, if we don't want the mod.)

DeathByAmor · Sep 25, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Honestly there is no logical reason why ANet should not implement this update. I have no problem with Akh and I want to believe that he is looking out for the rest of the community, but if he truly was he would embrace this update rather than try to type out these page long rants on why he is just making sure that ANet keeps things balanced and whatnot. At the end of the day all this update does is brings the prices of items BACK DOWN to reasonable levels. I HATE paying 100k+ for ANY ITEM. I have spent unbelievable amounts of gold to get those vanity items I wanted and what did it get me? Absolutely nothing, but I still like to play the game. You don't see me pitching a fit and rage quitting cause ANet didn't bend to my will. In my opinion ANet would have done this with or without players complaining.

That said however I am positive that 99% of the people opposed to this update are just sore cause their "uber" weapons will no longer be worth what they PAID for it. Of those 99% I am willing to bet hard cash that 90% of them are Ebayers. I'd be pissed too if I spent hundreds of dollars in real cash to purchase ingame pixels. Of course I cannot prove this accusation directly, but that is the ONLY explanation how there are so many insanely rich people. There are like only about a handful of players I know that like me solo'd the UW before the AoE nerf and actually built up a nice collection of ecto. Farming on the type of scale to make the kind of money you need to buy a Super highend Req 8 Dwarven or Crystalline these days is serious business. Hell in Korea and China they have office parks with farmers that sit and do it all damn day every day. It probably takes 50 farmers 1 week of farming to make enough to buy 1 single perfect crystalline sword in today's market. Granted they are not in the market to buy up super rare skins, but you get the point. I was stuck at home on medical leave for a whole year. All I could do was sit at home on my ass and play Guild Wars. I did build up a large amount of gold and ectos. Down side is that my social life all but crashed and I gained 25 pounds. Upside is that I collected a steady paycheck from my work.

My case is just that; only way you can honestly make the kind of money it takes to buy the extreme "rare" items that exist out there is to play the game the way I was playing it and I find it hard to believe that all those super rich players are able to put the time into it that I did. I know there are probably some people out there that have extenuating circumstances like me and had literally nothing better to do except play GW, but like I said there are not many. More than likely most are unemployed layabouts out there buying up ebay gold on credit or something and a bunch of college students wasting all their mommy and daddy's money on GW gold.

I guess the biggest problem I have in this game are the Ebayers and those greedy farmers out there charging an arm and a leg for your drops. Sure I chest run and all that but I charge less than half what everyone else charges for items. I do so in an attempt to drop the prices on rare items. Why not instead of getting angry at ANet about their update get angry at ebayers and greedy farmers. I have friends that have played as long as I have and don't get anywhere the number of rare and "expensive" items that I do. I find myself having to give hand outs to everyone I know. They tell me that they just can't understand why they don't ever get any good drops. They tell me that if they don't start getting good drops they will quit. This is EXACTLY why ANet is doing this. The economy in this game has gotten to a point where vanity items have such a e-penis factor to them that long time players will actually quit cause they are embarrassed for having played so long and not having any "uber" rare items to show for it. THIS has got to stop.

/end rant

AnnaCloud9 · Sep 25, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

I do not think that the inherent mods should be salvageable. I think that you should be able to apply a 15^50 or whatever mod to any weapon as long as you have unlocked that mod kind of like in PvP. I think this will be the only way to not throw things out of balance. This way the market will not be flooded with all the silly 15^50 mods.

If everyone had the weapon of their choice (skin-wise), and the mods of their choice (whether it be 15^50 or in stance), what difference does it make to an economy that never existed, and was wholly created by individuals that made this so called economy for no other purpose but to brag about how much money they've essentially stock piled for absolutely no reason?

Flooded with 15^50 weapons? Are you kidding me? Why does this worry you? This is PvE - in no way does this ever effect anyone else in a PvE environment free of an economy that strangles the average and new players from actually customizing their characters as they choose. This is purely another excellent option to make your character the way you want to, without money-hungry people telling you how much it's going to cost you. People bent on making the biggest sale to add to there resume of...boastful gold piles that amount to absolutely nothing? Finally, I can find the Morning Star axe I've always wanted, and modify it the way I like, since this economy is driven only to sell the over populated stormbow, chaos axe, and fellblade.

Xeno Breaker · Sep 25, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I didnt wann go through 8 pages of ppl bikkering so heres my question.

Will the salvaging options work on armors. Example. I have a sup vigor on my legs, i wann salvage that out but dont wann destroy my armor. Will this work? Every one is discussing weapons any thoughts on armors.

Thank you

AnnaCloud9 · Sep 25, 2006, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeno Breaker

Will the salvaging options work on armors. Example. I have a sup vigor on my legs, i wann salvage that out but dont wann destroy my armor. Will this work? Every one is discussing weapons any thoughts on armors.

Thank you

The way weapons would work is the weapon will still be destroyed - but you'll be able to capture one of the mods (whether inherent or modified). Armor would react the same way, just as it always has in that the armor in question would be sacrificed to salvage the rune, but you'll be guaranteed your rune back, whereas now you have a slight chance of salvaging a rare (or not rare!) material and your rune would be lost.

The Herbalizer · Sep 25, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

If everyone had the weapon of their choice (skin-wise), and the mods of their choice (whether it be 15^50 or in stance), what difference does it make to an economy that never existed, and was wholly created by individuals that made this so called economy for no other purpose but to brag about how much money they've essentially stock piled for absolutely no reason?
Flooded with 15^50 weapons? Are you kidding me? Why does this worry you? This is PvE - in no way does this ever effect anyone else in a PvE environment free of an economy that strangles the average and new players from actually customizing their characters as they choose. This is purely another excellent option to make your character the way you want to, without money-hungry people telling you how much it's going to cost you. People bent on making the biggest sale to add to there resume of...boastful gold piles that amount to absolutely nothing? Finally, I can find the Morning Star axe I've always wanted, and modify it the way I like, since this economy is driven only to sell the over populated stormbow, chaos axe, and fellblade.

Im pretty sure Savio said he would be warning and banning people who insisted on turning this into a rich vs poor debate...

I would normally have ignored such a post but it is very very flawed.

Firstly people who have nice items or lots of gold dont always brag about it like you claim.

Secondly gold which people stockpile does have a use. Ever heard of saving for expensive items? Fow armor? Future purchases? Items and armor in new chapters? Using peoples services?

Thirdly people do not always boast about their gold. You are demonising (sp) people with large amounts of gold.

Fourthly the current economy does not strangle new or average players. I am 100% sure I could become a millionaire within one month of starting Guild Wars even now with relative ease. Obtaining wealth is still not a problem and it can still be done with barely any grind. However, people who are not able to see past cookie cutter builds and think farming is the only way to do it like to say lots of gold = big grind.

It is clear you hate people who are rich but at least dont make statements which are filled with so many inaccuracies it is laughable.

As Savio said earlier please dont continue to bash rich / poor people like some people continue to do.

DeathByAmor · Sep 25, 2006, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaCloud9

If everyone had the weapon of their choice (skin-wise), and the mods of their choice (whether it be 15^50 or in stance), what difference does it make to an economy that never existed, and was wholly created by individuals that made this so called economy for no other purpose but to brag about how much money they've essentially stock piled for absolutely no reason?

Flooded with 15^50 weapons? Are you kidding me? Why does this worry you? This is PvE - in no way does this ever effect anyone else in a PvE environment free of an economy that strangles the average and new players from actually customizing their characters as they choose. This is purely another excellent option to make your character the way you want to, without money-hungry people telling you how much it's going to cost you. People bent on making the biggest sale to add to there resume of...boastful gold piles that amount to absolutely nothing? Finally, I can find the Morning Star axe I've always wanted, and modify it the way I like, since this economy is driven only to sell the over populated stormbow, chaos axe, and fellblade.

You misunderstood me. I like the idea. I just would rather the 15^50 mods to not be salvageable. In other words...if you ID a 15^50 axe for instance at any point you could buy a crappy Req 8 Morning Star axe and then change the inherent damage mod at any time to any of your unlocked mods for axes. So that means that if you have IDed a 20% (while hexed) inherent mod you could switch out your current mod for that one. Or if you would prefer 15^50 or 15% while enchanted you could switch to that. I just don't want to see people spamming WTS 15^50 Axe Mod 100k + 50 ectos in KC and LA.

DeathByAmor · Sep 25, 2006, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeno Breaker

I didnt wann go through 8 pages of ppl bikkering so heres my question.

Will the salvaging options work on armors. Example. I have a sup vigor on my legs, i wann salvage that out but dont wann destroy my armor. Will this work? Every one is discussing weapons any thoughts on armors.

Thank you

I REALLY hope that we end up getting this feature. I really hate having to buy minor runes to negate superior runes on some of my armors...

Akhilleus · Sep 25, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

Honestly there is no logical reason why ANet should not implement this update. I have no problem with Akh and I want to believe that he is looking out for the rest of the community, but if he truly was he would embrace this update rather than try to type out these page long rants on why he is just making sure that ANet keeps things balanced and whatnot. At the end of the day all this update does is brings the prices of items BACK DOWN to reasonable levels. I HATE paying 100k+ for ANY ITEM. I have spent unbelievable amounts of gold to get those vanity items I wanted and what did it get me? Absolutely nothing, but I still like to play the game. You don't see me pitching a fit and rage quitting cause ANet didn't bend to my will. In my opinion ANet would have done this with or without players complaining.

That said however I am positive that 99% of the people opposed to this update are just sore cause their "uber" weapons will no longer be worth what they PAID for it. Of those 99% I am willing to bet hard cash that 90% of them are Ebayers. I'd be pissed too if I spent hundreds of dollars in real cash to purchase ingame pixels. Of course I cannot prove this accusation directly, but that is the ONLY explanation how there are so many insanely rich people. There are like only about a handful of players I know that like me solo'd the UW before the AoE nerf and actually built up a nice collection of ecto. Farming on the type of scale to make the kind of money you need to buy a Super highend Req 8 Dwarven or Crystalline these days is serious business. Hell in Korea and China they have office parks with farmers that sit and do it all damn day every day. It probably takes 50 farmers 1 week of farming to make enough to buy 1 single perfect crystalline sword in today's market. Granted they are not in the market to buy up super rare skins, but you get the point. I was stuck at home on medical leave for a whole year. All I could do was sit at home on my ass and play Guild Wars. I did build up a large amount of gold and ectos. Down side is that my social life all but crashed and I gained 25 pounds. Upside is that I collected a steady paycheck from my work.

My case is just that; only way you can honestly make the kind of money it takes to buy the extreme "rare" items that exist out there is to play the game the way I was playing it and I find it hard to believe that all those super rich players are able to put the time into it that I did. I know there are probably some people out there that have extenuating circumstances like me and had literally nothing better to do except play GW, but like I said there are not many. More than likely most are unemployed layabouts out there buying up ebay gold on credit or something and a bunch of college students wasting all their mommy and daddy's money on GW gold.

I guess the biggest problem I have in this game are the Ebayers and those greedy farmers out there charging an arm and a leg for your drops. Sure I chest run and all that but I charge less than half what everyone else charges for items. I do so in an attempt to drop the prices on rare items. Why not instead of getting angry at ANet about their update get angry at ebayers and greedy farmers. I have friends that have played as long as I have and don't get anywhere the number of rare and "expensive" items that I do. I find myself having to give hand outs to everyone I know. They tell me that they just can't understand why they don't ever get any good drops. They tell me that if they don't start getting good drops they will quit. This is EXACTLY why ANet is doing this. The economy in this game has gotten to a point where vanity items have such a e-penis factor to them that long time players will actually quit cause they are embarrassed for having played so long and not having any "uber" rare items to show for it. THIS has got to stop.

/end rant

you make my point for me, though we sit on opposite sides of the line.
why should someone who plays 1 hour a week be expected to have the same skinned items as someone who plays 20 hours a week? why should someone whose played 3 weeks have the same skinned items as someone whose played 15 months? why should someone whose unwilling to put forth any time have the same skinned items as someone who is?
my issue is not with poorer players, to think this would be a gross misunderstanding of my opinions. my issue is with the kind of person who isnt willing to try, or isnt willing to play, for the same things other people do, and then complain about not having them. ebayers, which you and i are so readily disgusted by are the kind of people who say "OMG I WANT THAT!" but have ZERO intentions of exerting the effort required in which to get them legitimatly...coincidentally, many people who support the inscriptions idea have the same outlook (they probably just lack the access to a credit card).
yes, there are rich people who will support it, and yes there are poor people who will support it and dont bitch&moan about inequalities. however, as i stated previously, they are doing it under the pretext that it will help. the problem is that every rule of economics pertaining to a free market system indicates otherwise.
in most games you have to play for weeks, months and hours upon hours to get items that even remotly come close to meeting the maximum item statistics. with guildwars, as i've said a million and a half times over, there is zero difference in the effectiveness of the rarest skinned weapon in the game, and the least rare skinned weapon in the game assuming they ahve identical modifications. the sole reason there is a difference is to provide variety, rarity and a sence of uniqueness.
by sinking this system to the bottom of the ocean anet will invariably create an environment of conformity...which, in video games, gets booring very, very, very quickly.

Mordakai · Sep 25, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

yes, a Rune switching feature is much needed, especially now we have 3 heroes per Character to look after... that's a LOT of Runes to buy / find.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

by sinking this system to the bottom of the ocean anet will invariably create an environment of conformity...which, in video games, gets booring very, very, very quickly.

Well, to be fair, Anet is releasing new skins and armor every 6 months. So, IMO, the ability to get the rare mods and skins should be accelerated.

I've never ebayed. I also never farm. I've played this game for 16 months now, and the only 15 over 50 health item I've ever gotten was the Dragoncrest Axe from Factions.

So, really, I hope this Inscription thing helps me find some more 15 over 50 weapons, because, as you say, looking at the same weapon gets pretty boring.

If anything, this will hopefully make the game less same, because you won't see everyone with the same crappy skins!

Akhilleus · Sep 25, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

heres an idea...
make an anet command
/spawn <insert item type(sword, axe, hammer, bow, wand, staff, shield), mods, requirement and damage mod here>
and voila...a collectors version that cant be sold or traded ends up in your inventory at no cost, instantly, and you can use the command at-will as many times as you want. this would give everyone whatever they need, and would keep greens&golds prices subject to natural market flucuations. mods may drop a bit, but mods people use item mods on golds anyway, so it shouldnt be too catastrophic.

this is an idea anyone whose actually worried about the difficulty in getting max-stat items could endorse...anyone who needs a perfect weapon can have one at-will, and mod, green, gold, ecto, etc, market values remain answerable to the market and droprates, as opposed to an unprecidented nerf.

aefghuys · Sep 25, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

this is great, i will be very happy if we could salvage 15^50...i like the idea of getrting basic mods 20/20 with 100% success, i think it would be a good idea to give the 15^50(inherernt mods) a harder success rate...say...25-50%

MSecorsky · Sep 25, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

So basically, I can take those 13 req 15>50s I have, salvage off the 15>50 part, sell them for 5 to 10K and have plenty of gold for personal needs while lowering the ceiling on overall cost of the inscriptions.

Neat.

AnnaCloud9 · Sep 25, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathByAmor

You misunderstood me.

And for that, I apologize.

I think having a way to further customize our characters is great, and this type of expansion would actually increase the variety of weapons seen among players, not increase the fellblades or chaos axes since not everyone wants or likes them. The GW sellers market is 95% geared toward the appearance sadly, because the actual legitimate function of a weapon has little bearing on it's selling price, unless it is a fellblade, chaos axe etc. If this weren't true, then collector weapons would demand the same price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Herbalizer

It is clear you hate people who are rich but at least dont make statements which are filled with so many inaccuracies it is laughable.

No, I don't, for I would hate myself then. And Guild Wars having any kind of substantial, working, player-based economy...is laughable.

=HT=Ingram · Sep 25, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

I personally think the farming market factor is what the MMO business is in the process of eliminating with recent changes to many games...

In this one there was never much reason to farm as the goodies did not make the man, it was how they used what they got... Sure some skins were in high demand but everything as far as stats were attainable in some way with either collectors or quests, or crafters... So in reality the whole WTB WTS never made one hill of sense to me at all. but its what gets some people off, so be it...

This is also the reason stuff is so expensive with this uncontrolled market.

The new Salvage options means Perfect mods you find can be used for your goodies anytime you want. and you have no need for those ridiculously priced items in the unregulated market. And thus Zero chance at getting scammed. which is still very common in the game. Sorry but recently I have been kicking people out of the alliance if they are bragging they scammed some guy.. and screenshoting the convo ahead of time for reporting to anet. This si not the type of players I want to be allied with.

This is a game or strategy and skill not a stock market game. its not called wall street wars...

In WoW Crusade expansion there is a new system for acquiring goods that has nothing to do with gold...

In Galaxies they are also changing to a honor reward system. the IGE type gold farming industry. and yes it is a full blown industry now, with professional shops not just sweat shops, have been exploiting the black market with no regulation for far too long. The Intellectual Property OWNERS are taking steps now to secure their Game Royalties by making the farmers obsolete and unneeded... This is a welcome enterprise IMO.

I feel this trend will expand across all MMOs eventually and force the Illegal Farming market into extinction. About all they got left is power grinding and selling accounts, but those are also being detected with more regularity with the new NCsoft account system. unfortantly it has also resorted in a new syndrom in this market... Selling a acount and reclaiming it latter to loot it and then reselling it again... Why? because the NCsoft account can never really be transfered only that they give you their acount and passsword to access it but they can always reclaim it with original information to reset passwords and account names back to the original... Thus locking out the person that purchased the account out of that account. If they complain about it they are told they did not have a right to purchase a account in this way and are IP banned... So yea... Buying ANYTHING like this is a scam.. face it ... learn it... live it.... Wake up and smell the truth. either buy your game like everyone else and play like everyone else, or your are going to get banned or scammed eventually. its just a FACT. plain and simple.